Dog Agression - decision time

[smallzoo]

A brief summary of our dog problems !!

1. Large breed-herder-2.5yrs old-big and strong(11st)
2. Fantastic with our family (3 kids-16,14,8) and Grandmas/brothers
3. Will sit, stay, show paw etc..in house.. absolutely no agression
4. Will play with other dogs in house without a problem
5. Has escaped garden and just herded people not been agressive
6. Visitors to house-different story !.. agressive and uncontrollable
7. Outside on walk-Pulls, lunges at dogs and other walkers(not always)

This has changed our lives. We cannot invite our kids friends around or have visitors without going

through a routine of locking doors, hiding the dog etc..

We feel there are four solutions:-
a) Find someone who can sort out his problems..we are quite pessimistic
b) Find him a new home (NOT a rescue home ) an owner who can handle and work him
c) Build some sort of outside kennel for when visitors come
d) Move house to a house with some land

As we have not been able to have people around for christmas we have decided to make a decision over

the next few months. In the end he is a dog however much we love him and he is affecting our family

life

Help needed .... please !

[DogPsyche]

I deal with this kind of dog all the time.

Just a few basic questions to get a better idea of the situation (although you will have to get someone in to personally assess as you can't get advice about aggression over the internet).

• What breed is your dog?
• Has he been neutered? If so, how long ago?
  
• When was the last time he had a complete vet check?
• What food is he on?
• What socialisation has he received since puppyhood?
• How does everyone react to his behaviour with visitors?

[smallzoo]

What breed is your dog?
-- Estrela Mountain Dog

Has he been neutered? If so, how long ago?
-- Yes over a year ago

When was the last time he had a complete vet check?
-- he doesnt.. when he was quite young he nearly took a bite out of the vet so we dont take him except for boosters and then he has to be muzzled. Last time it took 5 people to hold him while he was injected

What food is he on?
-- James well beloved dried food

What socialisation has he received since puppyhood?
-- not enough when young. As he is has always been so big people react quite nervously when they see him. As he now pulls and cant totally be trusted on a lead he doesnt go for walks locally. I take him on my 4x4 to a quite area instead

How does everyone react to his behaviour with visitors?
-- My wife is now so nervous he doesnt introduce him at all !.. Last time my brother and his wife brought her brother to stay at the house I brought him in on a lead and he took one look at him and growled quite agressively.


Regards

Peter

[divadexie]

With regards to the visitors issue, I would get a gate he can't jump over and have him in the next room so he can see whats going on.
Bring him in on a lead but don't take him up to the people, have then turn there back on him so hes not threatened. if you feel more comfortable with a muzzle on, then do.

Let him make the moved but if he starts pulling towards them or growling, put him back out the room and completely ignore him.
After a while, try again.

if he is acting this way because he does not like strangers inh si house you need to teach him they are ok, and if he is scared and acting like this you also need to teach him other people in the house are ok.

if you can get to a point he can be in the room on the lead without the muzzle on, still dont let them look directly at him but drop bits of his fave food near him, and gradually closer to them.
its not going to happen overnight but if you love him and work at it hard it can be overcome.

passing on a dog who has problems doesnt't really ensure him the best home, quite often people think they can come and end up passing the dog on again

[DogPsyche]

Sorry I haven't replied sooner but I've had some problems getting back into the site for some reason.

You should get a professional behaviourist in of course because getting advice on aggression over the internet could be dangerous. There's no way anybody can tell whether the dog is anxious or confident without personally observing them. All cases of aggression are complex and need proper investigation.

The best place to start any investigation is at the vets to rule out any physiological cause for the problem because if there's something physical going on, no amount of behaviour modification is going to work. Even something as minor as a build up of ear wax or a painful tooth can make some dogs very irritable and reactive. I know you now have a problem with the vet (this is why puppy socialisation now involves weekly visits to the vet for nothing more than a biscuit and lots of fuss until the dog is pulling the owners in every week!) and using the coercive methods on the previous visits have made this situation worse. Again, a behaviourist should be able to give you a programme whereby you go right back to the beginning with the vet - taking the dog weekly just for nice things to happen etc. You, the vet and the behaviourist should all work together to implement this properly - your dog needs to be able to visit the vet without having to be held down by 5 people!

It also sounds like this dog has become too powerful for you to physically control without becoming anxious yourselves. For these big guys (I work with the Molossers - the mastiff types) I normally recommend a Halti Harness (not the headcollar!) to redress the power balance and get the dog calmer by being controlled by the the body. I've helped 7st women control 13st dogs with this simply designed harness that doesn't hurt the dog or cause it any discomfort. Again, you need to be shown the correct technique to use it or it just becomes an ordinary harness that a dog can use to pull with.

Your last sentence is telling to me;

"In the end he is a dog however much we love him and he is affecting our family life"

It sounds like you are already putting some emotional distance between yourself and the dog. Be glaringly honest with yourselves and make the decision quickly to either back him 100% and get the help he needs or to get in touch with the breed rescue for more advice on rehoming to a breed specialist. If you decide to back him, make him your family project and devote the next year at least with all the commitment as if he were one of the kids in trouble. Make a list of all the good things about him (you started this in your first post) and try to focus on the positive about him while quietly working on the not so positive stuff with the help of a professional behaviourist. The best places to look for behaviourists are either to contact breed rescue (through the Kennel Club usually) or via the Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors (APBC) or UK Registry of Canine Behaviourists (UKRCB).

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[nick_j007]

Originally Posted by smallzoo

What breed is your dog?
-- Estrela Mountain Dog

Has he been neutered? If so, how long ago?
-- Yes over a year ago

When was the last time he had a complete vet check?
-- he doesnt.. when he was quite young he nearly took a bite out of the vet so we dont take him except for boosters and then he has to be muzzled. Last time it took 5 people to hold him while he was injected

What food is he on?
-- James well beloved dried food

What socialisation has he received since puppyhood?
-- not enough when young. As he is has always been so big people react quite nervously when they see him. As he now pulls and cant totally be trusted on a lead he doesnt go for walks locally. I take him on my 4x4 to a quite area instead

How does everyone react to his behaviour with visitors?
-- My wife is now so nervous he doesnt introduce him at all !.. Last time my brother and his wife brought her brother to stay at the house I brought him in on a lead and he took one look at him and growled quite agressively.


Regards

Peter

Hello Peter, I was reading this and thought it rung a bell. You sent this to me as an email enquiry also. Did you get my response via email?
Where in the country are you please?
Perhaps we can ensure you're being guided to the right person?

Jaq offers sound advice of course.

Nick