Border Collie Pup - 14 weeks has basics

[RobD-BCactive]

Background - BC Pup now 14 weeks old, intended for Family Companion and Agility/Flyball

The Pup responded really well to house & regular basic obedience training, sit, down, stay, come here, recall to whistle, leave it, off and couple "paw" based tricks. He is well socialised and gets complimented on his calmness. I find he also heeds 2 sets of "house rules" like not going upstairs at my house, but following a slightly more relaxed regime at my Sister's where he's encouraged upstairs. He is very calm at doorways, and waits for an invitation, similarly I can have him stay waiting some distance from his food with it down, and then call him over. We have generally been able to take pride in his behaviour now, and taking him out is very pleasant and (mostly) stress free.

Getting a good recall, has gained him more freedom to play with other dogs, in a relaxed way, and he mixes well with children (closely supervised).

At present he is mostly food reward motivated, mix of kibble and puppy coaching treats; this is fine until someone else has better doggie treats around
He is enrolled in a Basic Obedience I class, so he can experience working with many strange dogs around, not simply playing with them.


The things that concern me at moment are :

a) Mouthy play - running alongside nipping clothes, tugging shoe laces etc

I am main victim here, as a regular play partner. He had problems with puppy nipping, and found he could push my niece about (solved that with obedience training). I didn't want to be telling him off for everything, so prioritised avoiding painful nips to skin and over-rough play, rather than stamping out all undesirable play immediately.

I think I probably need to take action now before the habit gets deeper seated. Think can do this by standard correction, letting him know "I disagree" with the game and ignoring him for short while should he persist, rather than any particular trick.

I do try to take out with me, his favourite a Kong Air Dog (elongated tennis ball on nylon rope), to give him a target should I need a distraction and keep him moving and he feels playful, avoiding need to discipline him when it's inconvenient.


b) Mouthing Lead

Am working in short bursts with doing "Heel" whilst on leash, he can do very well when there's not distractions like people & dogs he wants to catch up and greet. I am not expecting 100% perfect discipline all the time, more have him able to walk businesslike at times (Working), and let us be more relaxed at others. In general he is a pleasant dog to walk, though he will try to stay put, nearing park exit etc.

A thing he likes to do, is holding the lead in his mouth, I have seen an older dog that did that, so think I need to correct this before it becomes an ingrained habit.


Perhaps as he matures, he'll grow out of these things to some extent, although I would assume that'll happen only with discouragement.

Any tips to stop these habits? Am I right to take action, or am I expecting too much of a young puppy? A slight concern is that this is negative rather than positive reward training. It would seem rather impractical though to continually reward the normal desired behaviour, except in short sessions. And he seems to respect my indication that he should not follow me upstairs, and there's nothing positive about that except pleasing me.

My priority has always been that he enjoys trips out, whilst learning to behave in a calm and controlled way, around people and dogs. That said, I don't want to hold the pup back, from achieving things, and sound training allows him more freedom and enjoyment in life.

[nick_j007]

Hi Rod

It sounds to me that you're actually doing rather, well, you're thinking carefully about your approach, and also you know instinctively what to do with your dog both to offer positives and negatives as it develops.

To try and train a dog without ever stopping and correcting certain misdemeanours is impractical and it could be argued will weaken the bond between you both. A sensible and balanced approach between praise and correction is what you should be aiming for. I find the trick is being able to go from green light (Yay! good boy!) to red light (Ah-Ah! No.) or similar in an instant gives the needed direction for the dog, and you then have the ability to 'steer' the dog's behaviour better.

We are so drummed into thinking that offering a brief well measured and well timed correction is wrong nowadays. It's not. A balanced approach is what I advocate.

I would say to go with your instinct on all of this as when I read your post you answer it as you go along

Good luck, keep me (us) posted.

Nick

[RobD-BCactive]

Thanks for your reply Nick, I appreciate it a lot.

A number of dog owners say things like "he's only a baby" rather a lot, and want to let him jump up and such like, so having the chance to check with others is great. If a behaviour was something that is simply grown out of, then I would simply be patient because I do not like "nagging" the dog.

Better make clear...

I very much concentrated on positive approach to get him through the puppy biting stage. I found older techniques recommended in past which worked with family dogs, were causing the pup to become over excited, and a time out approach did not work very well (he often immediately returned to same state (if short interval away used) and longer intervals interfered with bonding).

A sharp sound followed by a gentle gripping touch with fingers of one hand, has been quite enough as a correction; not emotionally screaming at the dog "NO BAD BOY!", making pup look into eyes, holding muzzle or smacking or showing anger. At puppy bite out of hand phase, I had to shake a plastic bottle of stones (when he was rather hyper) to grab his attention and then distract him.

[nick_j007]

Training any dog is a matter of personal approach of course and what suits one may not suit another. This also applies from breed to breed.

A quiet, balanced approach is what I like to drum on about, and it sounds as though you're on the right lines

Other people with your puppy can be your worst enemies as they love to be marauded by a puppy and then walk away leaving you to put it all back together again I am polite but firm, and tell people that I do not want him to jump up when saying hello (for example) I then show them the sit, hold the collar and then offer the back of hand and then progress to calm fussing. Start as you mean to go I say, so of course the pup gets a puppy hood, but we start to introduce the rules from an early stage so it's not a shock at any point.

Very young dogs are very able to get the rules right from the start I can assure you. I do a few puppy visits that address problem behaviours, and it never ceases to amaze me how controlling and out of control some 12 week (or thereabouts) pups can be!

Sometimes we do need to constantly redirect for certain what appear to be persistent unwanted behaviours. If you let it go by without addressing it there and then, when will it stop? Will it stop? Puppyhood can at times feel like one constant noooooooooooooo. Be sure to mark positively the behaviour you do want and then you'll have a ratio which is perfectly acceptable. I read in The Times this morning at a coffee shop that experts advocate a ratio of 1 correction to 6 praises for teenagers...I thought that would work well for a young dog too

Don't stress about bonding as you have a life time to do that. Correcting a dog will not adversely affect your relationship. If anything you may find the opposite. Keep it fair, keep it balanced. No shouting, no smacking etc required.

I don't like shaker bottles personally (though I have used them in certain circumstances) it can (you have a collie remember) set up a bit of a 'flinch' reaction and I would rather use my voice and attention or withdrawal of attention for example.

Go with the flow and keep it balanced (gawd I sound like a hippie) and you'll be fine.

Best of luck. Back in on Monday now. Adios.

Nick

[RobD-BCactive]

Originally Posted by nick_j007

Other people with your puppy can be your worst enemies as they love to be marauded by a puppy and then walk away leaving you to put it all back together again

So very very true!! Let me add getting many dogs attention with treats, when they came to the park for exercise and to play. It really hacks me off when there's 5 dogs sitting down round someone dispensing treats, with the exercise ignored.

Unfortunately it is often other dog owners, who seem set in their ways and won't cooperate with requests, and they must know really that consistency is key to breaking habits.

Don't stress about bonding as you have a life time to do that. Correcting a dog will not adversely affect your relationship. If anything you may find the opposite. Keep it fair, keep it balanced. No shouting, no smacking etc required.

I don't like shaker bottles personally (though I have used them in certain circumstances) it can (you have a collie remember) set up a bit of a 'flinch' reaction and I would rather use my voice and attention or withdrawal of attention for example.

This BC pup was different to the 3 I remember before, and had me doing research and consulting whilst at the vets for suggestions. I suspect it is not just trainers, but can be dogs of same breed, who require different approaches. The pup was gradually getting more and more hyped up, and less and less controllable; then he stayed with me for a week 24/7, rather than day times only. It was homemade shaker, I guess I used it proportionately or sensitively, but he had to be snapped out of it for a moment, and then could be redirected. Otherwise his focus would stay on his "target", person or object he should not have. Then I could show him different games, and realised how food motivated he was, so started working obedience, whenever he needed calming down.

There was almost a switch after a day or so of change of approach, where he seemed to bond, feel more secure, respected decisions and settled down. I spent a lot of time with him and avoiding crating him to "calm down". The bonding seemed to be necessary for him to consent to being lead. I could quite believe he might have been returned to Breeder (like one litter mate of his), or having Behaviourist called in without this change of approach. He's been happy at my Sister's evening times ever since, and they have been able to teach him some tricks, and he enjoys all the petting and stuff now without going hyper and ending locked up.

After a week or so, he realised this rattle of stones, was not going to end in some painful impact to him, he was desensitised to it.. Now he required vocal direction, but he had learned to pay some attention. Far from being nervous, this pup is a confident and bold one, who seems to think he's far bigger than he really is, at puppy socialisation party he moved onto the very biggest 5 month old dogs, rather than anything remotely his own size.

[nick_j007]

I read and it inwardly nodded with agreement. Yes, I see a lot of different behaviours within a breed. Depends on parents (dog and owner/breeders), genetics, sex, working or showing bloodlines for example.

You're doing fine

Keep up the great work!

Nick

[RobD-BCactive]

A little feedback. There's been some progress using the planned approach, and he understands now that I don't like him mouthing the lead.

This lead to him picking up sticks sometimes, and as he was behind me, I didn't spot a small one. Suddenly last night he was rolling around on the ground, pawing at his snout, as if he had got something irritating on his eyes or been stung. I looked him over, quick look at mouth and it seemed clean. So rushed him back, picking him up and running, to where I could wash him down. Seemed calmer but soon became apparent that had not solved it. Checked his mouth once more, this time more thoroughly, and discovered a piece of stick lodged between upper molars, jammed in. Took a minute or so, but some gentle manipulation with fingers, and I was able to pop it back out, at which point he happily tried to chomp it, not having learned a thing.

Start of Basic Obedience I at Dog training club last night, and had a chance as one of the demo dogs (another collie) was mouthing on lead to discuss with trainer. He soon asked, about the pup's favourite toy, and thought that "ball on string" type toys lead to this, as when playing you can easily end up leading the dog via the mouth. His suggestion, was to treat it like pulling, and simply stop if the leash is grasped in mouth.

So I'm cutting out any play which involves directing pup via mouth this week, and will add the anti-pull stop, when walking on leash to the anti-mouthing approach. I like the calm quietness, and it'll reduce the number of negative reprimands I have to give.

I don't think it was really a mistake to play with "ball on a string", as it was helping him unlearn a worse mouthing habit by distracting him in a positive way. It is a behavioural "bulge" that's popping out in different areas, once one is sorted, but the issue is getting smaller and less irritating.

[nick_j007]

Sounds like you're on track.

Keep up the great work!

[RobD-BCactive]

Time for an update and reflection on this.

Firstly, I managed to break the habit enough in a week, to have it not occur for my niece at first practical night at dog training club.

Howver it still happens, especially when the pup is eager to play, and excited. With positive happy reinforcement, when he gets it right, and action to avoid practicing the behaviour it is lessening gradually.

As a dog handler, it is easy at relaxed times in eagerness to go, to tempt the pup, with a swinging lead loop, so I cause the problem at times, and then need to settle an excited jumping pup.

Most practical, has been an approach of immediately telling him to "Leave it!", which he always obeys, and then if a repetition occurs rapidly, to escalate to the Disagreement indication with a "ppSSSHH!". With time I have been able to tone down the noise and get the same effect, just like I rarely have to symbolically grip or touch the pup, to back up the audible correction.

Personally I found methods of discouraging it, by stopping or turning round less practical. Quite often when lead is on, and working on good walking, we are going in direction the pup does not want to go in eg) away from park, or towards the car. Similarly, there may be people (dogs) behind, who I don't wish to encounter.

It's left me appreciating Nick's encouragement to go with original plan; and watching some of his videos of walking a puppy, where he gives postive feedback frequently, were helpful. I prefer the audible correction, to any twitching or jerks on lead, as the dog is handled by others, and it's safer if the message is a simple "no jerking" with audible only correction effective.

[nick_j007]

Absolutely great. What strikes me is your own ability to adapt to the dog as it grows and to treat it as an individual. It's that flexibility where you will (well, you have) find your success.

Keep it up. Great work.

Nick