E Collars

[Ritablewer]

We have a rescue Collie who is about 2 years old, she is as good as gold at home, and also when introduced to new dogs or people, our only problem is recall we are unable to let her run free as she completely ignores us and only returns when she wants to. Has anyone any experience with E Collars?

[Pawsitive]

Originally Posted by Ritablewer

We have a rescue Collie who is about 2 years old, she is as good as gold at home, and also when introduced to new dogs or people, our only problem is recall we are unable to let her run free as she completely ignores us and only returns when she wants to. Has anyone any experience with E Collars?

Bin the collar idea and invest in a clicker.

These links will help:

Training a steadfast recall

10 techniques for training with distractions

Training with distractions

You can start by practising recall in the house - making it a game between you and other family members.

Then move onto open spaces as reliability grows - keeping her on a long line in the first instance.

Set her up for success - be loaded with her absolute favourite things (food / toys) and when reward her each time she comes back.

NEVER punish her for coming back - sometimes my collie girl pretends she's deaf so she can carry on sniffing whatever exciting morcel it is she's found in the grass. My solution? Yell out 'bye then' and walk off - or run!

Collies watch where we are all the time, it's part of their herding instinct, and believe me they will come running to find you (chase you! )

The thing is, you can't tell her off for not coming back despite how cross you might be, as she will only learn that coming back = something bad.

That's counterproductive to what you are trying to teach her - that coming back = goooood stuff!

Make lots of noise, wave your arms, squeak toys - lots of silly fun sounds and movements when calling for her attention and sound reeeeaally excited as she comes back - then click and reward. (Obviously you won't have to do that forever, but in the first instance it helps grab her attention).

You should also call her back repeatedly on a walk and then release her to run off again so she doesn't learn that coming back just means going home / end of fun.

Please don't put an ecollar on your dog. They are banned in Wales for a reason. The KC are campaigning for them to be banned and the fact is, they send an electric current into the dog's neck to coerce the dog to do something. They can open you up to other problems (such as aggression with other dogs / people / children - whatever the dog is associating the pain with) and most dogs are so stoic, they only give off subtle signals when in pain that most of us humans don't recognise.

At the end of the day, you could well damage your relationship with your dog as well as causing physical damage. There are much better methods to use than ecollars.

[Ritablewer]

Jess knows where we are at all times but will not come back to us no matter what incentives we use, have tried Clicker, whistle, calling, treats, balls and every other thing known to mankind, any other ideas?

[RobD-BCactive]

Yes, your dog is basically good at home, but worse in park etc because of all the distractions and stimulation of the open air.

You should use a long line (with top clip harness to avoid trapping legs) and practice recall, with gradually more distractions; but say your dog is very keen to explore round some trees as there dogs that mark there regular. Then reward the recall by dashing up to the distraction, the trees and allowing your dog to sniff ie life rewards.

Remember you need to not just use food rewards, but fun play, and vary it a bit. See YouTube - ‪"Canine Currency"‬‏

Frankly a BC is one of the very worst breeds to start zapping, as they have long memories, prone to fearfulness and phobias, so operator error could easily have unintended consequences.

As the Admin doesn't like links to useful information pages, if your dog chases, or you want a link about functional rewards & premacking to help train a dog against distractions, please PM me instead.

[Pawsitive]

Rob's post is really good - and the vid should help you a lot.

If she know's where you are - then you aren't running far enough

Have you hidden behind trees and waited for her to notice? I know it sounds daft but it works (well does for my two and they can play the selective hearing game when they choose to lol)

Agree that first you should put her on a long line and do as previously advised.

Shock collar is a 'quick fix' tool that causes lasting damage and you could make behavioural problems far worse, or create new ones. Not only that, but you are coercing the dog and using fear/pain as a means to do so. Is that really how you want to train your dog?

If treats and rewards aren't working, then they aren't high value enough. If you read the third article I posted you will see what distraction levels are and what you need to do to overcome big distractions.

[Ritablewer]

Unfortunately we have tried all the above we have a 50ft line and a 100ft line when on these,, she will come back but as soon as she is free she is off like a bullet. We have taken her to numerous trainers including gun dog trainers and she has improved with everything but recall off lead, we have had her a year now and are at our wits end and feel that if we don't try the E Collar we will never be able to let her be free.

[Ritablewer]

We have actually bought and used one now, having tried practically every other form of recall, used a 25ft, 50ft and 100ft line taken her to numerous trainers including gun dog training and not achieved the recall required for her to have the chance to be free and safe. She is now really good and comes most of the time when called with out using the shock but she is wearing it when out (not indoors) and she does not run out of the front door at every opportunity. She has in the past escaped and killed two of our neighbours chickens so aqction needed to be taken. There is one setting on the collar which is awful and should not be allowed it is a constant shock. I hope this helps other people who may rescue a BC who has probably never been takne outside in their life.

[GlasgowDogTrainer]

I would continue to heavily reinforce your dog every single time she comes back to you. The ecollar might have given you the result you are looking for but unfortunately they can have serious adverse side effects which have been briefly mentioned here. Continue with the positive stuff, there is a reason the ecollars are banned in Wales and hopefully in the rest of the UK soon.

[nikki]

Originally Posted by GlasgowDogTrainer

I would continue to heavily reinforce your dog every single time she comes back to you. The ecollar might have given you the result you are looking for but unfortunately they can have serious adverse side effects which have been briefly mentioned here. Continue with the positive stuff, there is a reason the ecollars are banned in Wales and hopefully in the rest of the UK soon.

Couldn't agree more. Positive reinforement is the best form of training. Ecollars can do all sorts of damage, esp if they are used incorrectly.

Is your collie interested in toys? High value food?

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